Rick Warren Condemns Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda

Rick Warren condemns the bill, but still insists that marriage is between one man and one woman. I hope his message works and I wish he'd bring some of that message here to the U.S. The proposed law even recommends death for gay people. Read about the Ugandan bill here.

Rick Warren on Meet the Press Nov. 29

An interesting conversation with Rick Warren:

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Rick Warren, a human being, contradicts himself and he is, no doubt, right wing.
He says that he loves everyone and yet he takes a stand against gay people. That's because Warren's bible tells him to.
He says Obama should be focused on jobs, yet Warren is not an economist.
Obama is focused on jobs. I don't understand it when people say Obama should be focused on jobs. Exactly what is it that people want Obama to do, personally hand out jobs. Actually, the government has handed out plenty of jobs and has allowed for people to keep their jobs.
The way to create jobs is to lift the economy.
Who creates jobs? People do. People create jobs by starting business and by buying things.
The fact of the matter is people are buying less because they have less money and banks are lending less. People can no longer tap their home equity to buy that car--and that's a good thing.
Therefore businesses aren't making as much stuff and so there are fewer jobs.
Obama is trying to tackle that issue in the long run by setting up our economy to transition to a green economy. That's what China is doing.
In the short term, there isn't a whole lot Obama can do to create jobs. He's already enacted the stimulus, after much opposition.
Warren talks about healthcare and poverty abroad, but what about in our own backyard. He doesn't seem to be as fervent about that. I like his stance on caring for the whole life in addition to caring about the unborn.
Religious types don't realize that if they fix some of the other issues, such as poverty and if they strengthen adoption and foster care and do any number of things to care about people once they're born, then that will slow abortion. Most women and girls get abortions because they don't have the wherewithal to care for a child. For some people, life is just brutal. They have no support and they're horribly abused. It's hypocritical to care about the unborn and not care about the born.
Also, healthcare is a right. At the very least, people should not be dying in THIS COUNTRY because they don't have healthcare. Not caring about the born is just as immoral as not caring about the unborn.
I like what Warren has to say about Muslims, but why doesn't he speak out against the hatred of Muslims in this country by many so-called Christians?

Now This is a Preacher

Rev. Ed Bacon said yesterday on the Oprah show that being gay is a gift from God (Here's a link to the clip). It was in response to a gay man who said he's had trouble reckoning with himself since he was 12. I'm sure the evangelicals are going bonkers today. But it was refreshing, especially since Rick Warren, who scored a role in Obama's inauguration, has been running around condemning gay people. You'd think he'd show more humility but he's running with it because he's got the big stage. 
What does Obama have to say on gay marriage? An interview in Rolling Stone captured it well. Essentially, he says we need a gradual culture shift:

In Dreams From My Father, you recount the bigotry your parents faced because of interracial marriage, which was illegal then. What is the difference between that and the current bans on gay marriage?
Well, I'm always careful not to draw easy equivalents between groups, because then you start getting into a contest about victimization or who has been discriminated against more. What I'll say is that I am a strong believer in civil unions that would provide all the federal rights under federal law that a marriage contract would provide to people. I think that the country is still working through the idea of same-sex marriage and its entanglement, historically, with religious beliefs.

My sense is that a consensus has already established itself that when it comes to hospital visitation, the ability to pass on benefits like Social Security, that people shouldn't be discriminated against, everyone should be treated equally. I think that is a starting point — that consensus is what will grow over time. If you want to use the analogy of the civil rights movement, Dr. King and others didn't lead with assaults on anti-miscegenation laws. They focused on voting rights and civil rights. Once those rights were secured, the culture shifts.

Rev. Bacon:

Focus on the Family Lays Off Workers After Prop 8

By way of an angry Frank Rich (read below), Focus on the Family is laying off workers after pouring money into passing Prop 8. The group, headed by James Dobson, are conservatives, the Palin kind. Focus on the Family co-sponsored this event. Some people say Dobson and Rick Warren share the same intolerance, which is why so many are opposed to Warren's participation at Obama's inauguration.

Colo Independent: Focus on the Family is poised to announce major layoffs to its Colorado Springs-based ministry and media empire today. The cutbacks come just weeks after the group pumped more than half a million dollars into the successful effort to pass a gay-marriage ban in California.

Critics are holding up the layoffs, which come just two months after the organization’s last round of dismissals, as a sad commentary on the true priorities of the ministry.

“If I were their membership I would be appalled,” said Mark Lewis, a longtime Colorado Springs activist who helped organize a Proposition 8 protest in Colorado Springs on Saturday. “That [Focus on the Family] would spend any money on anything that’s obviously going to get blocked in the courts is just sad. [Prop. 8] is guaranteed to lose, in the long run it doesn’t have a chance — it’s just a waste of money.”

In all, Focus pumped $539,000 in cash and another $83,000 worth of non-monetary support into the measure to overturn a California Supreme Court ruling that allowed gays and lesbians to marry in that state. The group was the seventh-largest donor to the effort in the country. The cash contributions are equal to the salaries of 19 Coloradans earning the 2008 per capita income of $29,133.

Here's Frank Rich, who's angry at Obama for inviting Rick Warren to the inauguration:

But we’re not there yet. Warren’s defamation of gay people illustrates why, as does our president-elect’s rationalization of it. When Obama defends Warren’s words by calling them an example of the “wide range of viewpoints” in a “diverse and noisy and opinionated” America, he is being too cute by half. He knows full well that a “viewpoint” defaming any minority group by linking it to sexual crimes like pedophilia is unacceptable.

It is even more toxic in a year when that group has been marginalized and stripped of its rights by ballot initiatives fomenting precisely such fears. “You’ve got to give them hope” was the refrain of the pioneering 1970s gay politician Harvey Milk, so stunningly brought back to life by Sean Penn on screen this winter. Milk reminds us that hope has to mean action, not just words.

By the historical standards of presidential hubris, Obama’s disingenuous defense of his tone-deaf invitation to Warren is nonetheless a relatively tiny infraction. It’s no Bay of Pigs. But it does add an asterisk to the joyous inaugural of our first black president. It’s bizarre that Obama, of all people, would allow himself to be on the wrong side of this history.

Extremists Suffer Serious Obama Denial

Extremists, who give conservatives a bad name, just can't face up to an Obama presidency. It's deep-rooted racism. No doubt about it, at least according to me.

Mike Huckabee's former campaign manager Chip Saltsman distributed, for Christmas, a Rush Limbaugh favorite -- Barack the Magic Negro. Limbaugh still can't get over the fact that Obama is black. 

Saltsman (here's his email: inbox@chipsaltsman.com) is actually a candidate to chair the RNC. If this is the state of the RNC, they'll need 8 years, at least, to grow up. 

TPM: If one of the Republican Party's challenges is how to effectively oppose the first black president without coming off as racist, one of the candidates for RNC chair is hardly off to a good start -- he is now distributing a CD that includes a racially-charged song called "Barack, The Magic Negro."

Sean Hannity is leading a "resistance" to the Obama administration: 

Radimist: Since the election, Hannity has described his radio show as the outpost of "the conservative underground," as if a show that's legally on over 500 stations could be underground in any real sense of that word. There is little doubt that there are many conservatives who think America will become a radical country under the Democrats and last night I heard on Mike Gallagher's show of a group that is trying to organize these people - Grassfire.

At the Grassfire web site, you get an idea of the immaturity at work here. What's not good is this kind of thing inspires lunatics to violence. If you head to freerepublic.com (under Obamatruthfile), you'll often see violence against Obama in code. No kidding. 
Here's a passage of the Grassfire-led "resistance:"

Resisting is just the first step. That is why we propose a three-phased recovery for conservatives: Resist, Rebuild, and Restore. We believe that resisting will create newfound unity among conservatives. Out of this, we must then Rebuild our structures. New, invigorating models must be developed that inform, equip and bring together conservatives and prepare us to return our ideas to political prominence. The Internet will be a key battleground The Left has moved far ahead in its embrace of and usage of new 2.0 technologies. The Rebuild process will leave Americans with a clear ideological and practical choice between the Left’s statist model and our model based on God-given individual liberties.

Having rebuilt, we can then Restore conservative ideas to leadership by winning elections. Ultimately, a movement’s ideas must result in electoral victories because that is the basis for legitimate authority and ultimately for implementing one’s ideas. Grassfire.org will soon be announcing a breakthrough effort that will allow our members to get engaged directly in the election process. Stay tuned.

Resist. Rebuild. Restore. It’s not an easy path for grassroots conservatives, but it is a clear path. We know what we must do. And it begins with resisting rightly —respecting the new President but never backing away from the God-given ideals of freedom and liberty upon which this nation was founded.

I have to believe that Sean Hannity is also concerned about his ratings. 
You can also find Obama resistance from, believe it or not, the Pumas. You remember them. They believe Obama is a stealth Muslim terrorist, the guy who stole the election from Hillary.  

Another strain of resistors are the ones who claim Obama isn't eligible to be president. The nutty Wiley Drake, a pastor of all things, is hating on Rick Warren for accepting Obama's invitation to give the invocation. Oh, the irony. Drake is one of the sorry souls who have filed a lawsuit questioning Obama's birthplace and his eligibility to be president. I hope the people at his "church" are aware of his lunacy.

BUENA PARK — Southern Baptist Pastor Wiley Drake bashed Saddleback Church Pastor Rick Warren this week, saying "God will punish" Warren for agreeing to give the invocation at President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration next month.
"I pray He is kind to you in this punishment that is coming," Drake wrote in a widely-released e-mail. In it, the First Southern Baptist Church of Buena Park pastor criticizes Warren's "recent plan to invoke the presence of almighty God on this evil illegal alien," a reference to Obama.

Notice he said "evil." I'll say again, these folks are merely racists. It's really that simple. Otherwise, they would come up with grownup strategies of moving forward, while living with the fact that their guy or gal didn't win. They'd find constructive ways to make their voices heard.

Rick Warren Good Man or Bigot?

The more I think about Rick Warren at the inauguration, the worse the choice seems.
This video presents a good discussion on Rick Warren: Bigot or kind man, or both? I suspect he's both.
Warren comes off so egotistical, so self-righteous, that it seems a shame to validate him.
If he had any decency or humility, he'd withdraw from his inauguration duties. He's just wrongo.
But I get Obama's reaching out to the deep red republicans. It's just bad timing. People are hurt by Prop 8.

Warren on Dateline:

"I pray for Barack Obama"

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On the economy. "We walked away from God's principles:


"Saddleback was the first church on the Internet"

On Christmas:

On suffering:

Church and Politics Don't Mix

The Saddleback "civil forum" really did leave a bad taste because Pastor Rick seemed to play everyone the fool -- John McCain too -- he just looked like a panderer. The days of evangelical influence on government is going out with Bush. Hallelujah and Amen!

The Fix: Voters don't mind discussing their faith but they're tired of religion and politics.

Days after both presidential candidates attended a nationally telecast forum at an evangelical megachurch, a survey shows that voters are growing wary of the mix of faith and politics.

In a 63-page report out today the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life found that 50 percent of conservatives now believe that churches and other houses of worship should stay out of politics. Four years ago, only 30 percent agreed. Across the entire political spectrum, 52 percent of voters said churches should keep out of politics. Forty-five percent said they should express their views.

CNN: "Overall, the number of people who say churches should not endorse political candidates is up slightly, but among Republicans it is up 11 points, and among white evangelical Republicans it is up 19 points," said Greg Smith, a research fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life.

"There is a slight uptick, from 40 percent to 46 percent, among people who are uncomfortable to have politicians talking about religion, but it is up 10 points among Republicans," he added.

Here's the full report from the Pew Forum

Rick Warren Couldn't Vote for an Atheist

Why does that irk me? It seems so unGodly. I would never vote for or against someone based on their religious beliefs. See the video here.

Democrats Need to Let Go of Pastor Night

Saddleback church's mission was to get voters to vote for McCain because that's what God would want, but the democrats aren't going to get anywhere accusing McCain of cheating or doubting his cross story. So what if he cheated and lied. It wouldn't be the first or the last. Going after McCain, the war hero, for lying could turn off some potential new voters. Now, if there was solid evidence, video...

Atlantic: Megan's Fourth Law of Politics: The party that starts looking for implausible and unprovable conspiracy theories about the opposition candidate is in trouble.

This spring, it was bizarre accusations against Barack Obama: he's a closet muslim, his wife is a black nationalist, etc. Now, suddenly, the Democrats are the one frantically hunting for buried treasure.

McCain Wasn't in the "Cone of Silence?"

In the McCain camp's rebuttal, we learn that McCain was a prisoner of war. Woweee. I didn't know that. I guess prisoners of war don't lie, cheat, curse or any of that.

NYT: Members of the McCain campaign staff, who flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling book “The Purpose Driven Life.”

The matter is of interest because Mr. McCain, who followed Mr. Obama’s hourlong appearance in the forum, was asked virtually the same questions as Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain’s performance was well received, raising speculation among some viewers, especially supporters of Mr. Obama, that he was not as isolated during the Obama interview as Mr. Warren implied.

Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said on Sunday night that Mr. McCain had not heard the broadcast of the event while in his motorcade and heard none of the questions.

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

Rick Warren's Motive

At the civil forum last night, Obama has talked about abortion and gay marriage. So has McCain. I didn't hear anything new from either candidate. 

But Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, shone the light on these issues for his flock. Genius move by Warren. Evangelicals, no doubt, will vote on those issues.

Here's why Obama needs to start pandering:

Salon: And when asked about whether there was evil in the world, McCain brought up radical Islamic terrorists, repeating his line about chasing Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell. Obama, meanwhile, brought up the genocide in Darfur, and child abuse; it was clearly a missed chance, and not just to reach the Christian conservatives watching.

People see McCain's response as a good one and Obama's as a missed opportunity. Obama isn't going to win this election by being brilliant. It doesn't seem like America is ready for that but I'd argue it's badly needed.

Obama's going to have to step up his sound bites.

Obama and McCain at Saddleback

Update: Full transcript

Rick Warren covered a lot of ground within an hour (for each candidate) and asked a lot of good questions. 

Aside from opposite views on nearly every issue, the main difference I saw between Obama and McCain is Obama thinks much more broadly. He's a complex thinker, considering the gray areas of issues. 

McCain is much more black and white. He's a reactionary. He doesn't think in shades and in that regard, is a lot like Bush. 

One notable comment from Obama was that George Bush is anti abortion but that hasn't reduced the number of abortions. Obama was making a case for a more practical way to reduce abortions, while maintaining the right to choose. That approach, I'm afraid, is lost on evangelicals who would rather be right and righteous than solve the problem.

Obama also seemed more honest, authentic is a good word, in his answers while McCain relied on anecdotes, the same ones we've heard over and over, and bits from his town halls.

McCain, with a stacked republican audience, received constant applause. He cracked a lot of jokes and talked about Vietnam when answering the religious questions.

Obama received a warm welcome and some applause here and there but it was a McCain crowd. 

McCain couldn't define rich. He doesn't want to tax anyone, he said. This is a fundamental difference between the two candidates. McCain doesn't understand reality and is much more aligned with the rich (I guess that's just a republican thing), whereas Obama aligns himself with the middle class and the poor. He'd help them first before he'd help the rich. McCain says he wouldn't boost taxes but didn't say how he would pay for anything, so it was a good sound bite. 

McCain managed to slam Russia and praise Georgia. He talked about Georgia being one of the earliest Christian nations? And this means?? 

McCain began to get rattled and riled up to fight the way he does. 
Obama never seemed rattled, calm and collected as always. McCain even ended with his tagline: country first. I'll post the video when it's up. 
Cnn's take
MSNBCCBS
HuffPo
NYT
APWaPo


On rich

On abortion

three people

McCain

Obama's In Rick Warren's House

Pastor Rick Warren will host Barack Obama and John McCain at his Saddleback Church today in Lake Forest, California. The event will be live streamed at cnn.com and at Saddleback's site at 5 p.m. California time.

Politically, Lake Forest is in one of the few republican territories in California. The average person makes $73K in Lake Forest. So no doubt, the people who attend Saddleback are inclined to be Republican. Apparently, the audience is stacked with those who could afford to pay up to $2,000 a pop: 

Public criticism over the ticket policy has sent church officials scrambling to explain itself as the big day approaches — although many would-be attendees remain unsatisfied by their explanation.
Church officials said they'd hoped to have some tickets available for the public but ran out when they couldn't satisfy demand among church members, who got the first crack at tickets that sold for $500 to $2,000.
Church officials said they decided to charge admission for people who wanted a chance to see the Republican and Democratic presidential hopefuls because of the expenses to stage the event and provide television feeds to a host of networks.
The high prices raised eyebrows.
"I cannot afford to buy my way into fundraisers," Burger said.
Jay Geer, a public relations crisis consultant, said Saddleback Church officials could have handled the ticket issue better.

Obama will go first (there was a coin toss), followed by McCain. They won't debate. Warren said he will ask the same questions of both candidates and he will get personal. He will NOT endorse a candidate and says he's trying to provide a look at the character of both candidates so people can choose.

Saddleback, an Evangelical church, seems to have placed more importance on confronting poverty and other social injustices, as opposed to railing against gay marriage and abortion. Don't get me wrong, they are still adamantly opposed to abortion and gay marriage, it's just that they have a broader view of their mission, and frankly, that's a good thing.

The Evangelicals of 2004 were more self-righteous it seemed. Warren played his part then, advising George Bush spiritually. I'll reserve comment.

But no doubt, Warren will ask the candidates about abortion and I think many will find Obama's beliefs on abortion to be not what they expected. He has a personal belief, he's against it, and a pragmatic belief, that women should be able to choose. He believes that the best way to work toward reducing abortions is by lowering teen pregnancy rates and education, among other things. 

Here's a story on Warren in today's The New Republic.

Politically, the joint appearance is good news for both candidates--but better news for Obama. Politicians rarely lose votes by appearing in church. But since the Republicans have had something of a lock on the votes of white evangelicals, McCain's appearance at Saddleback is not big news. That Rick Warren has invited Obama, and for the second time no less, is. Warren is America's anti-Falwell. If he has little interest in removing evangelicals from politics, he has taken the lead in removing them from automatic identification with Republicans. Equal time in a megachurch is a decided advantage for any Democrat, especially one like Obama, who has been polling relatively well among religious voters. In fact, according to the Barna Group, which routinely surveys Christians, Obama leads McCain among every group except those who call themselves evangelical; even those who prefer the term "born-again" give the edge to Obama.

Regardless of which candidate benefits the most from this joint appearance, however, the biggest winner is Warren himself. A wildly successful author and church planter, Warren is leading an effort to focus the attention of Christian conservatives on questions of social justice. Most of his work in this regard has taken place in Africa, especially Rwanda, whose president, Paul Kagame, seems determined to build a purpose-driven nation in the aftermath of the genocide that once marked his country (and for which he may bear some responsibility). There is no doubt something of a missionary aspect to Warren's work in the region, but once California exurbanites see the devastating effects of AIDS and poverty, they are unlikely to ignore the same problems in West Central Los Angeles.

But Warren does believe you'll burn in hell if Jesus isn't in your life. When a human being condemns another human because he thinks he knows best, that can be dangerous because it automatically makes that person more righteous (in their mind). It also diminishes all the other religions of the world. 

When it came time for questions, a woman stood up, proclaimed her Judaism, and asked Warren if she was going to burn in hell. He paused before responding--and then answered her question the only way it could be answered. Yes, he said to audible gasps. My reaction was that either you believe that Jesus is the savior or you do not, and I found myself impressed that Warren remained true to his convictions, knowing full well that the audience would not like what he said.

Here's a great story on why religion and politics should not mix:

Our problem is moral ambiguity. Anyone that thinks this ambiguity is helpful in addressing poverty, crime, and disease is misinformed.

We need political leaders that are more moral, not church leaders that are more political.

Here's the schedule for the 3 debates to come.

Interview with Rick Warren
Another video interview