48% of Americans Support Torture

America really has lost its moral compass.
This must be just run off from the Bush administration. This is why morals and ethics are more important than religion. I used to think morals and religion went hand and hand.
I can't imagine people who support torture have really thought about it much. They haven't considered the ramifications. Why not just torture alleged criminals to get information instead of having trials?
It doesn't matter if torture works. It's the wrong way (morally and ethically) to get information and it's not the best way to get information. I'll give my paying the bills analogy. If robbing a bank helps me pay the bills with money left over, does that mean I should rob the bank? No. Because there are better ways (morally and ethically) for me to get money. For those who think torture is moral and ethical, well, I guess I feel sorry for them.

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Military Agency Warned Torture Could Produce Unreliable Information

WaPo: The military agency that helped to devise harsh interrogation techniques for use against terrorism suspects referred to the application of extreme duress as "torture" in a July 2002 document sent to the Pentagon's chief lawyer and warned that it would produce "unreliable information."

"The unintended consequence of a U.S. policy that provides for the torture of prisoners is that it could be used by our adversaries as justification for the torture of captured U.S. personnel," says the document, an unsigned two-page attachment to a memo by the military's Joint Personnel Recovery Agency. Parts of the attachment, obtained in full by The Washington Post, were quoted in a Senate report on harsh interrogation released this week.

It remains unclear whether the attachment reached high-ranking officials in the Bush administration. But the document offers the clearest evidence that has come to light so far that those who helped formulate the harsh interrogation techniques voiced early concerns about the effectiveness of applying severe physical or psychological pressure.

Torture photos set to be released:

The Bush administration had repeatedly blocked through legal channels appeals from human rights groups for release of the pictures, which are held by the Army Criminal Investigation Division. But the Obama administration late yesterday lifted all legal obstacles and the pictures are to be published by 28 May.

The justice department has initially agreed to the release of 21 images of abuse at detention centres in Iraq and Afghanistan other than at Abu Ghraib and 23 other pictures. It added "the government is also processing for release a substantial number of other images". Up to 2,000 could be released. Guardian

Gibbs on possible backlash from photo release:

Brown Man has a thoughtful post on what is and isn't torture and the hypocrisy of indicting anyone in the Bush administration for this now:

What is with the sanctimony about torture?

Are these self righteous pundits serious? The United States of America has killed millions of people around the world in the name of democratic freedom, and we will kill many more before all of our bullets and bombs run out. To insist on some kind of twisted recollection of America's history, as though the spouting of a few ideological suppositions could bring life back to those who have been slaughtered by the hand of U.S. soldiers since the beginning of this country's history is the lowest kind of immorality, the type that allows the mind to release itself from the stricture of the facts in order to construct a past that aligns perfectly with one's cherished ideals.

Torture is not just waterboarding.

Torture is when you kill everybody in a village but an eight year old child who will have to live with the horrific sounds and smells of death as their entire community suddenly disappears.
Read the rest at Brown Man

Eric Holder: No Intention of Prosecuting CIA Agents

Eric Holder says he won't criminalize policy disagreements but his duty is to enforce the law.

Is Torture Merely a Policy Disagreement?

The Wall Street Journal says it's a policy disagreement and Obama will be haunted by opening the door to torture prosecutions. I think the WSJ couldn't be more wrong. 

Obama made his point -- that he was against prosecutions and he wanted to look forward. But people wanted to know--who signed off on torture-- and they wanted someone to be accountable. There's a lot of anger. It's hard not to get sick after reading the memos.
What else don't we know? It seems a lot of people are running scared.
What's most despicable is the higher ups let the soldiers take the fall. The soldiers are serving prison time for being "bad apples" while the real bad apples are still running around chatting on TV, criticizing the Obama administration.
Obama threw the ball to Eric Holder. That was a great move because more than anything, people wanted the debate and that's what's happening. What needs to be made clear is torture is never okay, even if it works. I use this analogy: robbing a bank will help me pay the bills and then some, but it's probably not the best way to pay the bills.

As far as prosecutions, it doesn't seem feasible. But at least we'll know who did the deeds and how to prevent it from happening again.
The WSJ says Obama is catering to the left wing:

Just as with the AIG bonuses, he is trying to co-opt his left-wing base by playing to it -- only to encourage it more. Within hours of Mr. Obama's Tuesday comments, Senator Carl Levin piled on with his own accusatory Intelligence Committee report. The demands for a "special counsel" at Justice and a Congressional show trial are louder than ever, and both Europe's left and the U.N. are signaling their desire to file their own charges against former U.S. officials.

The WSJ considers torture a "policy disagreement:"

Policy disputes, often bitter, are the stuff of democratic politics. Elections settle those battles, at least for a time, and Mr. Obama's victory in November has given him the right to change policies on interrogations, Guantanamo, or anything on which he can muster enough support. But at least until now, the U.S. political system has avoided the spectacle of a new Administration prosecuting its predecessor for policy disagreements. This is what happens in Argentina, Malaysia or Peru, countries where the law is treated merely as an extension of political power.

GOP: Is this a Banana Republic?

McCain Against Torture Probe

John McCain is against torture and against the torture probe.
I'm on the fence on this issue.
Torture should be off the table, even if it works (which it doesn't but the argument is always presented). No doubt about that. It wasn't the right thing to do and it will never be the right thing to do.
But prosecutions?
One thing is for sure, CIA agents, who were following orders from higher ups, shouldn't be prosecuted. But I'd sure like to see Cheney on the run.
The debate is good though. We need to clear the air. We need to know what roles people had. All of this needs some sunshine.
But ultimately, I'm not sure prosecutions are the right path. I think we were led by a bunch of people who were lost and trapped in a bubble of terrorism. They lived and breathed it and lost sight of everything else--everything. Look at the current state of our economy.
Bush-Cheney were laser focused on terrorism and that's pretty much it. They were incompetent.
Except for a handful of people, Bush's people thought they were doing what was best for the country. Even Condi Rice signed off on torture. She may have been mislead but I find it hard to believe Rice didn't have good intentions.

Dennis Blair Says Torture Worked

Once again, I'll say, just because torture works doesn't make it right. It also doesn't mean it's the best method to get information. The point is, it doesn't matter if torture works. HELLO. Ignorant arguments for torture are being presented.

If stealing makes me rich, does that mean I should steal? Come on people. 
The U.S. is not about torture. It is illegal and it is what barbarians do. It sounds like we really have lost our moral bearings.
Obama needs to give another speech specifically on torture.
In an old memo written by Dennis Blair, now Obama's director of national intelligence, Blair says torture works. 

CNN: The Bush-era interrogation techniques that many view as torture may have yielded important information about terrorists, President Obama's national intelligence director said in an internal memo.

"High-value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qaeda organization that was attacking this country," Director of National Intelligence Dennis Blair said in a memo to personnel.

The memo, obtained by CNN late Tuesday, was sent around the time the administration released several memos from the previous administration detailing the use of terror interrogation techniques such as waterboarding, which simulates drowning.

Obama Leaving Door Open to Prosecutions for Torture

Updated with video below-Obama speaks to the press on the torture memos. Obama worries that this could get so politicized that it hampers national security operations. 
Dick Cheney is calling torture a success. But maybe he'll be getting his due:

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Obama doesn't want the agents prosecuted. Nor should they be. They were underlings. If anyone is prosecuted, it needs to be the big guys:

Obama said it will be up to Attorney General Eric Holder to decide whether or not to prosecute the former officials.

"With respect to those who formulated those legal decisions, I would say that is going to be more a decision for the attorney general within the parameter of various laws, and I don't want to prejudge that," Obama said during a meeting with Jordan's King Abdullah at the White House.

"There's a host of very complicated issues involved there. As a general deal, I think we should be looking forward and not backward. I do worry about this getting so politicized that we cannot function effectively, and it hampers our ability to carry out critical national security operations."

Obama reiterated his belief that he did not think it is appropriate to prosecute those CIA officials and others who carried out the interrogations in question.

"This has been a difficult chapter in our history and one of [my] tougher decisions," he added. CNN

Cheney is Disturbed

Update: MSNBC is reporting that Obama is leaving the door open to prosecutions. 

Original post: 

Hannity, such a putz, asks: Did Joe Biden reach out to you? Why in the world would Biden reach out to tainted Mole Man. Ick.
Hannity may as well have been sitting in Cheney's lap. If Cheney thinks torture is a "success," he's a very sick man.

Meanwhile, Cheney is trying to prove his innocence by trying to declassify CIA records to show that torture works, which means that we probably should be prosecuting Cheney and everyone else involved in the memos. Originally, I thought that was a bad idea but it may be the right thing to do after all. Sen. Dianne Feinstein is asking Obama to hold off on any final decisions until the intelligence committee finishes its investigation:

Democrats and international officials pressed for a fuller accounting of what happened. Senator Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat and chairwoman of the Intelligence Committee, wrote Mr. Obama asking him not to rule out prosecutions until her panel completed an investigation over the next six to eight months. NYT

Cheney's argument that torture works is idiotic in any light because even if it did work, it doesn't mean that's the right way to get information or even the best way. It's similar to the surge argument. Just because the so-called surge worked in Iraq doesn't mean preemptive efforts or a different solution might've worked better.
Personally, I think Cheney was the point man in the downfall of this country. He seems to be a twisted man with an agenda. He's showing signs of ego and guilt.