Rick Warren Criticizing Democrats Today

Here's why politics and religion don't mix and why I believe the sole purpose of the "civil forum" was to air Obama's views on abortion and gay marriage for evangelicals. Many evangelicals were getting nervous that some would actually vote for Obama because of his views on poverty and social justice. They didn't want the flock getting too far away: 

Beliefnet: The Democrats recently added language to their party platform that they say is aimed at reducing demand for abortion. Do you think it represents a significant step toward a pro-life position?

Warren: It is a step, there's no doubt about that. I've been getting a lot of feedback on it. I was out of the country and people starting writing me about it. The general perception was 'Too little too late--window dressing". I'm not saying I would say this, because I haven't even read it, but what I was hearing form people was that [Democrats] were saying 'It's OK to be pro-life and be a Democrat now. In other words, 'You can join us. We're not changing our firm commitment to Roe v. Wade, but you can now join us.' Well, for a person who thinks that abortion is taking a life, I'm sure that's not going to be very satisfactory to most of those people. And to put it in right at the last minute at the end of a campaign, there was some question about that: Why are they doing this?

When you asked Obama about when life begins, he punted, saying 'it's above my pay grade.' Should someone running for the highest office in the land have a clear answer to that, or is that kind of ambivalence acceptable?

No. I think he needed to be more specific on that. I happen to disagree with Barack on that. Like I said, he's a friend. But to me, I would not want to die and get before God one day and go, 'Oh, sorry, I didn't take the time to figure out' because if I was wrong then it had severe implications to my leadership if I had the ability to do something about it. He should either say, 'No scientifically, I do not believe it's a human being until X' or whatever it is or to say, 'Yes, I believe it is a human being at X point,' whether it's conception or anything else. But to just say 'I don't know' on the most divisive issue in America is not a clear enough answer for me.

That's why to say that evangelicals are a monolith is a myth, but the other thing is that you've been hearing a lot of the press talk about 'Well, evangelicals are changing, they're now interested in poverty and disease and illiteracy, and all the stuff I've been talking about for five years now. And I have been seeding that into the evangelical movement and it's getting picked up and a lot of people are talking about doing humanitarian efforts. But I really think it's wishful thinking on a lot of people who think they're going to drop the other issues. They're not leaving pro-life, I'm just trying to expand the agenda....

If an evangelical really believes that the Bible is literal--in other word in Psalm 139 God says 'I formed you in your mother's womb and before you were born I planned every day of your life,' if they believe that's literally true, then they can't just walk away from that. They can add other issues, but they can't walk away from the belief that at conception God planned that child and to abort it would be to short circuit the purpose.

I'd like to say, there isn't a single human on Earth who knows when life begins and anyone who thinks they know could be dangerous. I understand evangelicals want to eliminate abortions. That's admirable, but asserting self-righteousness has not worked and it never will. 

Democrats are just faking it Warren said:

Then it sounds like it would be unconscionable for an evangelical to vote for a pro-choice candidate like Obama.

Well, we're going to see what happens. All I can say is you'll see what happens. This is why there's a difference between simply talking the lingo... after the 2004 election the Democratic pundits were saying 'The Democrats lost in '04 because they didn't talk the language of faith.' And actually that's kind of, not paternalistic, but it's talking down. It's basically saying 'If you just get the right words, then they'll think you've got the lingo.' And just because a person can say 'God' and 'Jesus' and 'salvation' and whatever doesn't mean they have a worldview. And people want to know what do they believe, not just their personal faith. It's just like how many different beliefs do Jews and Christians have and still call themselves Christians or Jews? It's all over the spectrum.

What's interesting to me is evangelicals don't mind spilling blood in other countries and war, you'll never see them protest war. Warren is preaching his understanding of the Bible to promote McCain. Somehow that doesn't seem right or Christian. It's kind of like he's concluding that God would vote for McCain. 

McCain Wasn't in the "Cone of Silence?"

In the McCain camp's rebuttal, we learn that McCain was a prisoner of war. Woweee. I didn't know that. I guess prisoners of war don't lie, cheat, curse or any of that.

NYT: Members of the McCain campaign staff, who flew here Sunday from California, said Mr. McCain was in his motorcade on the way to the church as Mr. Obama was being interviewed by the Rev. Rick Warren, the author of the best-selling book “The Purpose Driven Life.”

The matter is of interest because Mr. McCain, who followed Mr. Obama’s hourlong appearance in the forum, was asked virtually the same questions as Mr. Obama. Mr. McCain’s performance was well received, raising speculation among some viewers, especially supporters of Mr. Obama, that he was not as isolated during the Obama interview as Mr. Warren implied.

Nicolle Wallace, a spokeswoman for Mr. McCain, said on Sunday night that Mr. McCain had not heard the broadcast of the event while in his motorcade and heard none of the questions.

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

Obama and McCain at Saddleback

Update: Full transcript

Rick Warren covered a lot of ground within an hour (for each candidate) and asked a lot of good questions. 

Aside from opposite views on nearly every issue, the main difference I saw between Obama and McCain is Obama thinks much more broadly. He's a complex thinker, considering the gray areas of issues. 

McCain is much more black and white. He's a reactionary. He doesn't think in shades and in that regard, is a lot like Bush. 

One notable comment from Obama was that George Bush is anti abortion but that hasn't reduced the number of abortions. Obama was making a case for a more practical way to reduce abortions, while maintaining the right to choose. That approach, I'm afraid, is lost on evangelicals who would rather be right and righteous than solve the problem.

Obama also seemed more honest, authentic is a good word, in his answers while McCain relied on anecdotes, the same ones we've heard over and over, and bits from his town halls.

McCain, with a stacked republican audience, received constant applause. He cracked a lot of jokes and talked about Vietnam when answering the religious questions.

Obama received a warm welcome and some applause here and there but it was a McCain crowd. 

McCain couldn't define rich. He doesn't want to tax anyone, he said. This is a fundamental difference between the two candidates. McCain doesn't understand reality and is much more aligned with the rich (I guess that's just a republican thing), whereas Obama aligns himself with the middle class and the poor. He'd help them first before he'd help the rich. McCain says he wouldn't boost taxes but didn't say how he would pay for anything, so it was a good sound bite. 

McCain managed to slam Russia and praise Georgia. He talked about Georgia being one of the earliest Christian nations? And this means?? 

McCain began to get rattled and riled up to fight the way he does. 
Obama never seemed rattled, calm and collected as always. McCain even ended with his tagline: country first. I'll post the video when it's up. 
Cnn's take
MSNBCCBS
HuffPo
NYT
APWaPo


On rich

On abortion

three people

McCain

Obama's In Rick Warren's House

Pastor Rick Warren will host Barack Obama and John McCain at his Saddleback Church today in Lake Forest, California. The event will be live streamed at cnn.com and at Saddleback's site at 5 p.m. California time.

Politically, Lake Forest is in one of the few republican territories in California. The average person makes $73K in Lake Forest. So no doubt, the people who attend Saddleback are inclined to be Republican. Apparently, the audience is stacked with those who could afford to pay up to $2,000 a pop: 

Public criticism over the ticket policy has sent church officials scrambling to explain itself as the big day approaches — although many would-be attendees remain unsatisfied by their explanation.
Church officials said they'd hoped to have some tickets available for the public but ran out when they couldn't satisfy demand among church members, who got the first crack at tickets that sold for $500 to $2,000.
Church officials said they decided to charge admission for people who wanted a chance to see the Republican and Democratic presidential hopefuls because of the expenses to stage the event and provide television feeds to a host of networks.
The high prices raised eyebrows.
"I cannot afford to buy my way into fundraisers," Burger said.
Jay Geer, a public relations crisis consultant, said Saddleback Church officials could have handled the ticket issue better.

Obama will go first (there was a coin toss), followed by McCain. They won't debate. Warren said he will ask the same questions of both candidates and he will get personal. He will NOT endorse a candidate and says he's trying to provide a look at the character of both candidates so people can choose.

Saddleback, an Evangelical church, seems to have placed more importance on confronting poverty and other social injustices, as opposed to railing against gay marriage and abortion. Don't get me wrong, they are still adamantly opposed to abortion and gay marriage, it's just that they have a broader view of their mission, and frankly, that's a good thing.

The Evangelicals of 2004 were more self-righteous it seemed. Warren played his part then, advising George Bush spiritually. I'll reserve comment.

But no doubt, Warren will ask the candidates about abortion and I think many will find Obama's beliefs on abortion to be not what they expected. He has a personal belief, he's against it, and a pragmatic belief, that women should be able to choose. He believes that the best way to work toward reducing abortions is by lowering teen pregnancy rates and education, among other things. 

Here's a story on Warren in today's The New Republic.

Politically, the joint appearance is good news for both candidates--but better news for Obama. Politicians rarely lose votes by appearing in church. But since the Republicans have had something of a lock on the votes of white evangelicals, McCain's appearance at Saddleback is not big news. That Rick Warren has invited Obama, and for the second time no less, is. Warren is America's anti-Falwell. If he has little interest in removing evangelicals from politics, he has taken the lead in removing them from automatic identification with Republicans. Equal time in a megachurch is a decided advantage for any Democrat, especially one like Obama, who has been polling relatively well among religious voters. In fact, according to the Barna Group, which routinely surveys Christians, Obama leads McCain among every group except those who call themselves evangelical; even those who prefer the term "born-again" give the edge to Obama.

Regardless of which candidate benefits the most from this joint appearance, however, the biggest winner is Warren himself. A wildly successful author and church planter, Warren is leading an effort to focus the attention of Christian conservatives on questions of social justice. Most of his work in this regard has taken place in Africa, especially Rwanda, whose president, Paul Kagame, seems determined to build a purpose-driven nation in the aftermath of the genocide that once marked his country (and for which he may bear some responsibility). There is no doubt something of a missionary aspect to Warren's work in the region, but once California exurbanites see the devastating effects of AIDS and poverty, they are unlikely to ignore the same problems in West Central Los Angeles.

But Warren does believe you'll burn in hell if Jesus isn't in your life. When a human being condemns another human because he thinks he knows best, that can be dangerous because it automatically makes that person more righteous (in their mind). It also diminishes all the other religions of the world. 

When it came time for questions, a woman stood up, proclaimed her Judaism, and asked Warren if she was going to burn in hell. He paused before responding--and then answered her question the only way it could be answered. Yes, he said to audible gasps. My reaction was that either you believe that Jesus is the savior or you do not, and I found myself impressed that Warren remained true to his convictions, knowing full well that the audience would not like what he said.

Here's a great story on why religion and politics should not mix:

Our problem is moral ambiguity. Anyone that thinks this ambiguity is helpful in addressing poverty, crime, and disease is misinformed.

We need political leaders that are more moral, not church leaders that are more political.

Here's the schedule for the 3 debates to come.

Interview with Rick Warren
Another video interview

Obama in Reno Aug. 17

Obama in Reno live here. If that link doesn't work, try here. 

Tomorrow, Obama will be at Saddleback Church in California talking about character and values with Pastor Rick Warren. Sunday, he's expected to be in Reno, Nevada. No other details yet.

Maybe a good time to announce Sam Nunn, loose nukes tamer, as his vice president? Nevada, Yucca Mountain. Nevada, battleground state. I'm just guessing like everyone else. It's gotten to be kind of fun. I've got my phone at the ready for the text message.

Obama and McCain Together at Saddleback August 16

Update: Apparently tickets were given out to the church folks who could afford to pay up to $2,000 and no other tickets were available for the general public distribution. 

Update 8-16: Read more about Rick Warren, the man. 

Update 8-4: Limited # tickets will be available Aug. 13. No other details are posted yet.
Obama and McCain will appear together in a "civil forum" at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California on Aug. 16. 

The event will also be live streamed here. 

Pastor Rick Warren, perhaps best known as author of the book "The Purpose Driven Life," will be the moderator.

Here is the official release: 

Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama, respective
presumed Republican and Democratic presidential nominees, will end the primary season by making their first joint appearance of the 2008 campaign at Saddleback
Church on Saturday, Aug.16 at the Saddleback Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion. Dr. Rick Warren, founding pastor of the 22,000-member Orange County,
Calif. mega church and moderator for the event, made the announcement today upon confirmation by both campaigns.

“We’re honored that the candidates chose The Saddleback Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion for their first joint appearance, an unprecedented opportunity for America to hear both men back-to-back on the same platform,” Warren said. “This is a critical time for our nation and the American people deserve to hear both
candidates speak from the heart – without interruption – in a civil and thoughtful format absent the partisan ‘gotcha’ questions that typically produce heat instead of light.

“The primaries proved that Americans care deeply about the faith, values, character and leadership convictions of candidates as much as they do about the issues. While I know both men as friends and they recognize I will be frank, but fair, they also know I will be raising questions in these four areas beyond what political reporters typically ask. This includes pressing issues that are bridging divides in our nation, such as poverty, HIV/AIDS, climate and human rights.”

Warren confirmed that, at the candidates’ request, this two-hour event from 5-7 p.m. (PDT) will be held in a non-debate format and open to all media. Both candidates
also requested that questions be posed exclusively by Warren, instead of a panel or members of the audience. Each will converse separately with Warren for approximately one-hour, beginning with Sen. Obama as determined by a coin toss. This historic forum will be the only joint campaign event prior to each party’s national convention.

“While debates typically focus primarily on the candidates’ positions and only secondarily on how they’d lead and make decisions, this Saddleback Civil Forum will
reverse that ratio,” Warren continued. “Since the oath of the President is a commitment to protect the Constitution, it’s critical to know how each candidate interprets the nature of its principles. Leadership involves far more than promoting programs and making speeches, and since no one can predict what crises will happen over the next four years, it is vital to know the decision capacity and process of each man.”

Warren has known each candidate prior to their run for national office. Both men recorded video messages to attendees at Saddleback’s annual Global Summit on AIDS
and The Church last November. Along with other national and international leaders, each has also endorsed Warren’s vision of the P.E.A.C.E. Plan, a 50-year strategy to mobilize
millions of local churches around the world to address five global problems: spiritual emptiness, corrupt leadership, poverty, disease and illiteracy. After four years of testing
prototypes of the P.E.A.C.E. Plan in 68 countries, the P.E.A.C.E. Coalition, involving business, church and government partnerships, was launched in April.

In conjunction with the Civil Forum event, Warren will convene an interfaith meeting at the church for approximately 30 Christian, Jewish and Muslim leaders to
discuss cooperation in projects for the common good of all Americans. Members of the P.E.A.C.E. Coalition Leadership Council will also fly in for weekend events.

On Sunday, Aug. 17, Warren will deliver a special sermon entitled, “Making Up Your Mind: Questions to Consider before the Election,” which will be streamed live on
the church Web site, www.saddleback.com, and made available for use in small group discussions within churches across the country.

The Saddleback Civil Forum was established to promote civil discourse and the common good of all. The first forum, held during Passover week this year, featured five Jewish World War II Holocaust survivors sharing their stories. The next Saddleback Civil Forum in September will feature former British Prime Minister Tony Blair.

“In addition to my primary calling to proclaim the Gospel Truth of salvation in Jesus Christ, these Civil Forums further three other life goals: helping individuals accept responsibility, helping the Church regain credibility and encouraging our society to return to civility,” Warren added.

Saddleback Church has invited Faith in Public Life, which hosted a Compassion Forum at Messiah College in Pennsylvania last April, to co-sponsor this special
Saddleback Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion. Approximately 6,500 tickets to the event will be allotted for seating in six different venues throughout the 120-acre Saddleback campus.